It would be a breath of fresh air to comment on aviation, design and manufacturing . . . and of course, all the other aspects of enjoying the wonders of flight.
Thanks Gad! Or, shall I say "9941" ;-). This is going to be more user driven than past blogs. I'd say let's just start posting stuff and maybe we'll get more organized as we go along (for example, it would be cool if there could be multiple comment streams (one dedicated to "off-topic," for example), but I don't think that's possible here. If anybody has contact info for the regulars, go ahead and let them know we have a new "work-in-progress" space to comment.
This would be a good week to ask if anybody attended NBAA? The last year I was there was 2007, but I'm hoping to get back again next year. Just been too busy with other stuff.
And with our mutual thanks (as I believe to speak for others), you have taken on the responsibility to block and/or monitor the comments, etc., to maintain a high level of integrity, etc., etc., . . . and so give your enterprise a quality, equal to, or even beyond the excellent level of intregrity, of the former blogs, that seemed to have been the inspiration or your high calling, in this endeavor.
'Many words to simply say, aim high, and don't compromise.
Andy . . . for a moment, I lost contact with my own identity . . . for a moment I didn't recognize me self . . . scary stuff, sometimes. But on closer examination, I is who I claim to be . . . "9941" and all that. Now, I don't know whether I'm comin' or goin' . . . but who cares! We's all here . . . and it peers that folks have found your party, and before you know it, you'll have to get some more chairs, to seat folks (as it were).
'Seems that you have enough interest to keep you goin' night and day.
gadfly
('Just keep the coffee pot goin', and some of will come 'round most any time, night or day. Oh, and "Thanks, much" for just 'bout all of us.)
Andy . . . No one expects this to be perfect, or have it all together . . . we're all learning where no man has learned before (as it were), so some of us only want to be of help, to help you make this into a most excellent meeting place, based on your expectations. You set the rules . . . lay them out for us, and we'll attempt to follow your lead. When anyone gets out of line, it's your responsibility, to cut off that blogger, and bring the discussion back on track, as you see it.
The rest of us, of course, need to commit to helping you achieve your goal . . . or to go elsewhere.
And, again, Thanks for being the bold one, to launch this great enterprise.
gadfly
(Andy . . . If you'ved never run a business, made a payroll, or been in charge, here's your opportunity to spread your wings, take charge, and be responsible for the results of your new enterprise . . . without the terror that comes when the payroll has to be paid, and income is "short" by a few thousand dollars. Cheers!)
Go to 'aero-tv.net' and scroll down to the Piper presentation. Bear in mind this is the same guy who said the original Piper Jet was the best thing going a few weeks ago. Same model engine, one less pax, same speed, 100 miles less range, but an inches wider cabin. Whoopee.
'I received an email from Phil on July 19th, the day after the current post. He said he had received a bad back injury shortly after completing the A & P course.
Hope he is okay. Meanwhile the blog coasts along like Payne Stewart's Learjet... near fuel exhaustion but Andy picks up the ball.'
To a lay person the Piper Altaire looks impresive... It's pretty, sexy, and comfie. I want.
There was no mention however of avionics or even flight capacity in the video. I had to laugh when ex-Beech Piper Dude slipped and said, (after highlighting all the places to store golf clubs and suitcases) that "it has a lot of baggage," -- do ya think?!
According to the TCPalm fishwrapper three of the seven members of the executive team left during the month of October. Of course, they announced this AFTER the NBAA convention, lest any potential customer should have second thoughts about whipping out the old wallet for a deposit on the Altaire. Gone are the Plant Manager VP, the Supply VP, and the Personnel VP. Of course the Engineering VP slot has not been filled and they have the Iprimus dude as an interim CEO while they do that all-important executive search. Good luck with that. Really, if they can survive this it will be one of the great comebacks in aviation history. It's not over until the fat lady finishes singing but she is hitting the high notes and shattering the wine glasses left and right.
Thanks again for your comments! Glad to hear you found yourself. ;-)
I just don't want to see everyone scatter, and I'm so glad to already see familiar names popping up here. I figure if we can keep expectations low (I hope Phil didn't get driven away because he felt the need to write a huge personal post on a regular basis--not that any of us put that on him) and just have a simple place to check in often or not, that would be cool. :-)
Sure has been an interesting journey, hasn't it! Thanks to everybody who made it possible! I don't want to name names, because I'm sure I'll forget one or more people. And the posters are included in those who made it possible. Without them, Stan, Shane and Phil would have been pretty lonely. ;-)
Andy . . . No one expects this to be perfect, or have it all together . . . we're all learning where no man has learned before (as it were), so some of us only want to be of help, to help you make this into a most excellent meeting place, based on your expectations. You set the rules . . . lay them out for us, and we'll attempt to follow your lead. When anyone gets out of line, it's your responsibility, to cut off that blogger, and bring the discussion back on track, as you see it.
The rest of us, of course, need to commit to helping you achieve your goal . . . or to go elsewhere.
And, again, Thanks for being the bold one, to launch this great enterprise.
gadfly
(Andy . . . If you'ved never run a business, made a payroll, or been in charge, here's your opportunity to spread your wings, take charge, and be responsible for the results of your new enterprise . . . without the terror that comes when the payroll has to be paid, and income is "short" by a few thousand dollars. Cheers!)
Gad,
As far as rules, I think we can continue along the lines of the last blog (ACE). One thing I'm really big on is civility (that doesn't mean agreeing, of course) which seems to be in short supply in all walks of life these days. There are a number of people (yourself included) over the "Critic" blog history that have been able to have major disagreements without it getting personal. I like that.
I started the company from scratch a few years ago with a staff and no contracts, so I know exactly of what you speak. Many sleepless nights in the beginning. I appreciate the sentiment. :-)
We're still small, but my team and I have extensive experience (from previous large companies we worked for) in all the types of contracts listed on the homepage, which is why I list them there.
For example, most of my Cirrus time comes from running (well, flying ;-)) between shopping center contracts all over the United States at my previous employer. The SR22 was a good "company car." I know I'd be preaching to the choir here mentioning how valuable a light aircraft can be in support of work.
Just one little example: One day while bidding a few shopping centers in Greater Atlanta, I kept getting bogged down in traffic. After a cumulative six or so hours of traffic delays (the place was a parking lot), I didn't think I'd ever make my last meeting which was south of ATL (and at the time I was way on the north side near Alpharetta). The plane was at Peachtree (PDK) and I noticed I was inching toward that particular exit. That's when I got the crazy idea to fly to my next meeting. :-) It probably wouldn't seem so crazy to this group (in fact, to this group it wouldn't ever seem crazy), but my destination was ATL itself and it was only 15NM away--and my hotel was close to my departure airport. :-) So, I called ahead to get a rental car, flew the five minute flight to ATL (taxi was longer at both airports) and made my final meeting for the day. :-) Talk about a beautiful (and quick) flight back to PDK that night over downtown Atlanta!
I better watch it or this post is going to start to approach Gadfly lengths. ;-)
'I received an email from Phil on July 19th, the day after the current post. He said he had received a bad back injury shortly after completing the A & P course.
Hope he is okay. Meanwhile the blog coasts along like Payne Stewart's Learjet... near fuel exhaustion but Andy picks up the ball.'BT,
Thanks for the information! That's by far the best thing we have to go on so far about why Phil might have been too preoccupied with other stuff to check in at the blog (still kind of weird to not at least post something like "Hey guys, I have a lot going on right now and won't be able to participate for the foreseeable future." That's his business, of course, but like you BT and others, I'm left hoping he's okay.
Thanks for checking in BT, and thanks to you and everyone for the acknowledgement, as well. :-)
I think B95 is right (from old blog) Piper probably will make this jet. Throw enough money at anything and it will happen. And as B95 and ASM point out, mass production of this jet is well.... kinda shakey at best.
It will probably end up being a VERY VERY expensive jet for the Sultan of Brunei. The Sultan will be very happy with its plush club seats and privy. Does it come in purple?
Don't think it will happen. Two and a half million dollars is too much for a jet with only one engine. The prospective buyers will find hundreds of twin-engine jets (used) for much less money. Yes, they burn more kerosene but that is swamped by capital costs.
If the owner/operator has to develop competence, train and take a type rating ride in a jet why not get one with two engines?
Sultan says to 100 business acquaintances in the middle east - want to do business with Brunei, buy a PiperJet for $4M NPV (initial price, plus parts, etc). That is $400M in revenue recovery.
Any chance of getting rid of the light gray typeface on the blog? Note the improved contrast in the "Post Comment" box at the bottom.
BT,
Did I do it? I think I tracked down the right parameter and changed it, but I can't tell for sure. I see what you meant about "Post Comment." It is bold as opposed to regular text, but now this text should at least match "Preview" next to it which I assume was black before, as well. I think I can up the text size a bit. Most of the parameters so far are default settings.
Just learned something new: You can link directly to a comment here by right clicking the date/time stamp at the bottom of each post and selecting "copy link address."
Also, for those that don't know, you can zoom in and out in Internet Explorer and Google Chrome (and probably in other browsers but I don't know) by holding down the "ctrl" key and moving your mouse wheel (if you have one) under your index finger forward and backwards.
Ctrl+ +/- keys works as well. Ctrl+0 should reset to no zoom.
I'm seeing this a little different than you guys since I'm admin, but to get to the picture option for me I have to click "Design" in the upper right-hand corner (which you guys might not have) and then "My Account" (which maybe you can see directly from this page).
Back in “olden times”, a problem was fixed by the designer/engineer walking across the shop . . . sketching out the new design on a piece of paper for the shop foreman, and production proceeded. Until the design was in production, everything was kept “in house”.
Today, watching grass grow or watching tectonic plate movement is more exciting than watching a “modern” aircraft company take necessary steps to correct problems. ‘The shear genius of the bean counters! Sure, times have changed, but lessons learned so long ago, at so high a price, need to be remembered.
gadfly
(“Dark Blossom”, from one “eyeglass wearer to another”, I heard of a man that got caught in a lens grinder . . . and made a spectacle of himself.)
I don't think the redesign of the PiperJet fuselage has anything at all to do with increased room in the cabin. The PA-46 fuselage on which the original Piperjet was based is retangular and boxy in cross-section. I don't think the airplane could achieve speed, range, and altitude goals with that fuselage.
They developed a round cross-section fuselage and droped the wing for additional aerodynamic benefits. Look at the Citation X for a good example of the dropped wing position.
The Altaire wing, however, seems to be the same PA-46 wing only shortened in span a few feet and fitted with barn-door winglets. A redesign is needed here as well with a super-critical wing of modest sweep.
While they are re-designing, might as well follow Boeing, Lockheed, and Dassault and move the engine down to the fuselage centerline and make the airplane controllable in pitch.
If Piper only does the fuselage re-design will the aircraft meet specs and be flyable? In my opinion, no. The computer simulations that say it will work are the same computers that said the original Piperjet would work (unless there was fraud at work to con Imprimus into buying Piper in the first place)
Can they do the complete, necessary re-design under the time and money constraints they have. Again, in my opinion, no.
You indicate you’re 34, etc. And I had to think back . . . my Grandpa was about 32 when he founded Cushman Motor Works . . . my Dad was about 32 when he began his series of inventions for Pacific Scientific Corp., and maybe I was a “late bloomer”, beginning our own company, and series of inventions in 1976, at age “39". By then, I did have a “private ticket” (single engine, land), and “A&P”, and some other stuff . . . but the bottom line is that it would appear that experience, education, and physical stamina, seem to all come together somewhere in the “thirties” . . . and then you build on that base. Combined with a good wife, and God given “kids” . . . what a winning combination! You have the world by the tail . . . but the world is “out to get you”, make no mistake.
You fly “piston”, single and twins . . . you are in the “sweet spot” of efficiency, in my opinion. Jets are great, but unless you need to be half-way across the continent, overnight, on a daily basis . . . you are in that most efficient position. But even then, you need to evaluate each flight . . . and don’t push it, when things are “iffy”. Last winter . . . discussed before, a couple guys in a Cessna (172?) . . . that got into the habit of a daily commute into Los Alamos (saving two hours each way . . . four hours per day), got in trouble in a late snow storm . . . turned around, too late, and came down only a few hundred yards from a place where the “gadfly” hopes to build our next, and final home. Funny thing . . . the highway, NM 344, coming up only a few feet from that spot is called “Heartbreak Hill” by us locals (a 15% downhill slope to the west, into the most beautiful sunsets anywhere on earth, with all the “banks” in the wrong direction) . . . and someone coming over the hill on a “bike”, hit that curve a little too fast, and added another fatality to the list.
Bottom line . . . stay alert, and never take anything for granted . . . ever! And never “assume”.
gadfly
(And never lose the fun of flying on the wings of the wind! In the mean time, I'll look further at your website, and the "niche" that you have found, to build your successful business, Alliance Facilities Management. For whatever it's worth, I put myself through school, swabbing floors, and aspects of maintenance . . . but not at the "high-tech" level of your company. 'How 'bout mowing 82 acres of grass runways, every two weeks! . . . And painting all the main buildings and "Tee" hangars . . . does that count?)
Two engines would be a good idea but the thin, straight wing is hard pressed to carry enough fuel for one engine on the Piperjet. Another reason for having a swept wing as the spar can be made deeper and the whole wing stronger while maintaining the same fineness ratio of the airfoil on the straight wing. And lots more room for fuel without adding tip tanks. Now you can add the second engine.
FC - Have you ever met a Sultan or Emperor or Hot Shot Gambler or Super Ego Investor?
All these guys think they can succeed where others have failed and are failing.
They also like to be involved in "cool" projects. Be it send a spaceship to suborbital flight, climbing the Everest, Erradicating Malaria, or making airplanes.
And Yes - they tend to create lots of jobs trying it. Be grateful and enjoy them as they last.
that's right - but you missed one point: all these guys may change their mind the next day and order someone to sell or stop the business and start a new more compelling vision!
Only dreamers don't care about pay checks. Workerbees (with Piper) will look at the a/cs sold and know quite well when their gambling starts. Do they have enough cash to say good bye when there is an opportunity somewhere in US or Canda?
Vern's dream team didn't fall apart because of lack of opportunities or too much cash?
Hey, if the Big Boss bought the shop then one shouldn't blame him for doing that. It's always better to cover one's a...(get money) and do the best!
I didn't miss the point. Is it better to have more, but more fluid jobs or fewer but more stable jobs?
Ignoring the past two years of crisis, is it better to have chronic 12% unemployment, but with the remaining 88% of jobs very stable (for life type), or Have 4-5% unemployment but with many jobs constantly being created and lost?
It is a fair debate.
My *strong* view is that any enterprise and any job created, no matter how long it lasts is a net plus for the economy and population.
A nation should never discourage the closing of a business or the elimination of a job, because doing so is the surest way for people to avoid opening a business and creating a job.
I like many things about the PiperJet project - its single jet engine mounted high above ground (ingestion of dirt and ice), its (new) interior and G3000. But after this last round of redesign I came with a nagging feeling that by switching to round windows they sacrificed their area. I like bigger windows - no matter what shape.
News is that Cessna is going to announce in November a single-engine turboprop based on the Mustang, which happily already has a round- sectioned fuselage and it's modestly-swept wing positioned well below the fuselage.
“Carbon (fiber) footprint?” . . . looks like they’ll be walking longer than planned: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013215262_boeing21.html
Sikorsky to the rescue? . . . What would Igor have said? (He’d have to take off his “fedora” to sit in the pilot’s chair.)
I totally get jobs at all cost are worth it even if only temporary in this economic climate, but one would hope that they at Piper are making an airplane that will actually fly.
Right now the Altaire looks like a fancy RV. What about the investors, are they stuck with a new redesign or can they get out? Are they at the whim of the Sultan too?
Oh, and I have had my share of egomaniacs in my life, including a Prince from Saudi Arabia, a high risk gambler, and a jet-setting world player. I know exactly how much they care about real people. That's where that integrity part really bugs me...
Cessna TP - Yes, it was quite interesting how Cessna's CEO never denied the rumors and said it is a big space between Corvalis and Mustang that they were looking at.
He said (correctly) that the key is being able to bring it at the right price point.
The thing is that a PT6 + a propeller costs about the same as two PWC615. Since the fuselage and everything else is the same, how do they make it at a lower price?
Here is a perfect illustration of what Americans prefer. On one hand, high taxes, non-right to work, unionized states. On the other low taxes, right to work, virtually no private sector unions.
Forget US vs China. It is California/Michigan/NY vs Texas et all.
TSA Can Now Date Rape You - Touching your "no-fly" zones OKed
"The U.S. Transportation Security Administration will update its pat-down methods at 450 U.S. airports on Friday to allow more aggressive touching, with inspectors instructed to touch travelers' personal do-not-fly zones if they refuse scanners. Who's ready for a road trip?
The current TSA first date pat-down keeps the touching mostly to the sides of your body and down your legs, with the screeners using the back of their hands. While the TSA has declined to specify all the details of the new pat-down guidelines, the Boston Herald reported earlier this week that the techniques include "over-the-clothes searches of passengers' breast and genital areas."
The difference between the old regime and the new - which in typical TSA fashion will be sprung on unsuspecting travelers without notice - was described by an ACLU official who had the procedure during a test at Boston's Logan Airport two months ago:
Two (female) TSA officers stepped over to me, and gave me the new procedure, which included touching my face and hair, and in between and directly under my breasts. Much like a medical appointment, they explained the motions they would make before actually touching me, and both women were professional and polite about the screening - even apologetic about it - but I couldn't help but think this was overly invasive overkill.
Of course, travelers can avoid the new form of civil unions by accepting the full-body scans that led one ExpressJet pilot to walk off the job last week. At the other end of the business, the chairman of British Airways has also criticized the growing load of U.S. safety rules, saying several are "completely redundant.""
As far as pat downs go, B95, afraid you're gonna be patted down by a member of your own sex, even if they are cute....unless of course that works for you?! kidding ;)
Sir Gadfly:
Pretty interesting stuff with Eclipse and Sikorsky. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
ASM:
I am going to have a talk with Mary Rose about that new Cessna single turbo prop. It will be interesting to see what she has to say!
Actually, what are the advantages of a single engine in terms of flying?
FC . . . Back in the early 1950's, Sikorsky was the first aircraft company to order my Dad’s inertia harness reel restraint system (cable . . . the Nylon web system came shortly thereafter) and five point quick release buckle. This restrain system is still the “de facto” standard in the cockpits on most domestic airliners, little changed in almost sixty years. So, I have good memories of “Sikorsky” of old . . . but whether or not Sikorsky’s involvement with Eclipse would be a good thing? . . . the word of the day should be: “caveat emptor”.
gadfly
(Anyone interested in multi-engine aircraft thrust and control should do a study of Igor Sikorsky’s four engine “le Grande” first flown successfully in 1913 . . . flyable on “any two engines”, an amazing achievement at any time in aircraft history.)
Singles are generally easier to fly and are easier airplanes with which to maintain proficiency. The big advantage is less fuel burn than the twins. The big disadvantage, of course, is that an engine failure means an immediate landing.
Click on "Aviation Enthusiasts" at the top of this page which should take you to the home page where hopefully the new post shows. :-) ASM has already posted there.
Work in progress. I'm playing around with the layout.
ReplyDeleteChecking in. Thanks again Andy!
ReplyDeleteThank you ASM! I just updated the layout.
ReplyDeleteTrying to change background color of message stream.
ReplyDeleteAndy . . . Please give us insructions.
ReplyDeletegadfy (the "ancient one")
It would be a breath of fresh air to comment on aviation, design and manufacturing . . . and of course, all the other aspects of enjoying the wonders of flight.
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking on this endeavor.
gadfly
(your humble and rather insignificant "bug".)
Thanks Gad! Or, shall I say "9941" ;-). This is going to be more user driven than past blogs. I'd say let's just start posting stuff and maybe we'll get more organized as we go along (for example, it would be cool if there could be multiple comment streams (one dedicated to "off-topic," for example), but I don't think that's possible here. If anybody has contact info for the regulars, go ahead and let them know we have a new "work-in-progress" space to comment.
ReplyDeleteThis would be a good week to ask if anybody attended NBAA? The last year I was there was 2007, but I'm hoping to get back again next year. Just been too busy with other stuff.
ReplyDeleteAnd with our mutual thanks (as I believe to speak for others), you have taken on the responsibility to block and/or monitor the comments, etc., to maintain a high level of integrity, etc., etc., . . . and so give your enterprise a quality, equal to, or even beyond the excellent level of intregrity, of the former blogs, that seemed to have been the inspiration or your high calling, in this endeavor.
ReplyDelete'Many words to simply say, aim high, and don't compromise.
Thanks much!
again, that annoying but friendly bug, the
"gadfly".
I'm there, if you all will continue to welcome your resident anthropologist's social comments, wise cracks, and otherwise silliness on site.
ReplyDeleteThank you Andy.
FC
PS ASM: How does one find the video of Auntie's last rites? Would like to send flowers.
Andy . . . for a moment, I lost contact with my own identity . . . for a moment I didn't recognize me self . . . scary stuff, sometimes. But on closer examination, I is who I claim to be . . . "9941" and all that. Now, I don't know whether I'm comin' or goin' . . . but who cares! We's all here . . . and it peers that folks have found your party, and before you know it, you'll have to get some more chairs, to seat folks (as it were).
ReplyDelete'Seems that you have enough interest to keep you goin' night and day.
gadfly
('Just keep the coffee pot goin', and some of will come 'round most any time, night or day. Oh, and "Thanks, much" for just 'bout all of us.)
Andy . . . No one expects this to be perfect, or have it all together . . . we're all learning where no man has learned before (as it were), so some of us only want to be of help, to help you make this into a most excellent meeting place, based on your expectations. You set the rules . . . lay them out for us, and we'll attempt to follow your lead. When anyone gets out of line, it's your responsibility, to cut off that blogger, and bring the discussion back on track, as you see it.
ReplyDeleteThe rest of us, of course, need to commit to helping you achieve your goal . . . or to go elsewhere.
And, again, Thanks for being the bold one, to launch this great enterprise.
gadfly
(Andy . . . If you'ved never run a business, made a payroll, or been in charge, here's your opportunity to spread your wings, take charge, and be responsible for the results of your new enterprise . . . without the terror that comes when the payroll has to be paid, and income is "short" by a few thousand dollars. Cheers!)
FC,
ReplyDeleteGo to 'aero-tv.net' and scroll down to the Piper presentation. Bear in mind this is the same guy who said the original Piper Jet was the best thing going a few weeks ago. Same model engine, one less pax, same speed, 100 miles less range, but an inches wider cabin. Whoopee.
Andy,
ReplyDeleteThank you for saving us from Psycho9517!!!!
I'll write more later today, but a big thank you to everyone for the thanks!!! :-)
ReplyDeleteAlso, welcome to everyone (except fake Gadfly who, fortunately, hasn't checked in ;-)).
Copied from the old blog:
ReplyDelete'I received an email from Phil on July 19th, the day after the current post. He said he had received a bad back injury shortly after completing the A & P course.
Hope he is okay. Meanwhile the blog coasts along like Payne Stewart's Learjet... near fuel exhaustion but Andy picks up the ball.'
Thank you Andy!
ASM:
ReplyDeleteTo a lay person the Piper Altaire looks impresive... It's pretty, sexy, and comfie. I want.
There was no mention however of avionics or even flight capacity in the video. I had to laugh when ex-Beech Piper Dude slipped and said, (after highlighting all the places to store golf clubs and suitcases) that "it has a lot of baggage," -- do ya think?!
FC
FC,
ReplyDeleteAccording to the TCPalm fishwrapper three of the seven members of the executive team left during the month of October. Of course, they announced this AFTER the NBAA convention, lest any potential customer should have second thoughts about whipping out the old wallet for a deposit on the Altaire. Gone are the Plant Manager VP, the Supply VP, and the Personnel VP. Of course the Engineering VP slot has not been filled and they have the Iprimus dude as an interim CEO while they do that all-important executive search. Good luck with that. Really, if they can survive this it will be one of the great comebacks in aviation history. It's not over until the fat lady finishes singing but she is hitting the high notes and shattering the wine glasses left and right.
OK - I made my way over here. No time to post now, but good to see some familiar faces here.
ReplyDeleteFC,
ReplyDeleteThanks for joining in over here. Welcome!
Gad,
ReplyDeleteThanks again for your comments! Glad to hear you found yourself. ;-)
I just don't want to see everyone scatter, and I'm so glad to already see familiar names popping up here. I figure if we can keep expectations low (I hope Phil didn't get driven away because he felt the need to write a huge personal post on a regular basis--not that any of us put that on him) and just have a simple place to check in often or not, that would be cool. :-)
Sure has been an interesting journey, hasn't it! Thanks to everybody who made it possible! I don't want to name names, because I'm sure I'll forget one or more people. And the posters are included in those who made it possible. Without them, Stan, Shane and Phil would have been pretty lonely. ;-)
From Gad:
ReplyDeleteAndy . . . No one expects this to be perfect, or have it all together . . . we're all learning where no man has learned before (as it were), so some of us only want to be of help, to help you make this into a most excellent meeting place, based on your expectations. You set the rules . . . lay them out for us, and we'll attempt to follow your lead. When anyone gets out of line, it's your responsibility, to cut off that blogger, and bring the discussion back on track, as you see it.
The rest of us, of course, need to commit to helping you achieve your goal . . . or to go elsewhere.
And, again, Thanks for being the bold one, to launch this great enterprise.
gadfly
(Andy . . . If you'ved never run a business, made a payroll, or been in charge, here's your opportunity to spread your wings, take charge, and be responsible for the results of your new enterprise . . . without the terror that comes when the payroll has to be paid, and income is "short" by a few thousand dollars. Cheers!)
Gad,
As far as rules, I think we can continue along the lines of the last blog (ACE). One thing I'm really big on is civility (that doesn't mean agreeing, of course) which seems to be in short supply in all walks of life these days. There are a number of people (yourself included) over the "Critic" blog history that have been able to have major disagreements without it getting personal. I like that.
Regarding your "P.S.:"
Alliance Facilities Management
I started the company from scratch a few years ago with a staff and no contracts, so I know exactly of what you speak. Many sleepless nights in the beginning. I appreciate the sentiment. :-)
We're still small, but my team and I have extensive experience (from previous large companies we worked for) in all the types of contracts listed on the homepage, which is why I list them there.
For example, most of my Cirrus time comes from running (well, flying ;-)) between shopping center contracts all over the United States at my previous employer. The SR22 was a good "company car." I know I'd be preaching to the choir here mentioning how valuable a light aircraft can be in support of work.
Just one little example: One day while bidding a few shopping centers in Greater Atlanta, I kept getting bogged down in traffic. After a cumulative six or so hours of traffic delays (the place was a parking lot), I didn't think I'd ever make my last meeting which was south of ATL (and at the time I was way on the north side near Alpharetta). The plane was at Peachtree (PDK) and I noticed I was inching toward that particular exit. That's when I got the crazy idea to fly to my next meeting. :-) It probably wouldn't seem so crazy to this group (in fact, to this group it wouldn't ever seem crazy), but my destination was ATL itself and it was only 15NM away--and my hotel was close to my departure airport. :-) So, I called ahead to get a rental car, flew the five minute flight to
ATL (taxi was longer at both airports) and made my final meeting for the day. :-) Talk about a beautiful (and quick) flight back to PDK that night over downtown Atlanta!
I better watch it or this post is going to start to approach Gadfly lengths. ;-)
T2,
ReplyDeleteHappy to help. :-) Thanks for checking in!
From Black Tulip:
ReplyDeleteCopied from the old blog:
'I received an email from Phil on July 19th, the day after the current post. He said he had received a bad back injury shortly after completing the A & P course.
Hope he is okay. Meanwhile the blog coasts along like Payne Stewart's Learjet... near fuel exhaustion but Andy picks up the ball.'BT,
Thanks for the information! That's by far the best thing we have to go on so far about why Phil might have been too preoccupied with other stuff to check in at the blog (still kind of weird to not at least post something like "Hey guys, I have a lot going on right now and won't be able to participate for the foreseeable future." That's his business, of course, but like you BT and others, I'm left hoping he's okay.
Thanks for checking in BT, and thanks to you and everyone for the acknowledgement, as well. :-)
Baron! :-)
ReplyDeleteAndy,
ReplyDeleteAny chance of getting rid of the light gray typeface on the blog? Note the improved contrast in the "Post Comment" box at the bottom.
"Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it."
I think B95 is right (from old blog) Piper probably will make this jet. Throw enough money at anything and it will happen. And as B95 and ASM point out, mass production of this jet is well.... kinda shakey at best.
ReplyDeleteIt will probably end up being a VERY VERY expensive jet for the Sultan of Brunei. The Sultan will be very happy with its plush club seats and privy. Does it come in purple?
FC
FC,
ReplyDeleteDon't think it will happen. Two and a half million dollars is too much for a jet with only one engine. The prospective buyers will find hundreds of twin-engine jets (used) for much less money. Yes, they burn more kerosene but that is swamped by capital costs.
If the owner/operator has to develop competence, train and take a type rating ride in a jet why not get one with two engines?
This is how it goes down.
ReplyDeleteSultan puts $400M into the thing give or take.
Sultan says to 100 business acquaintances in the middle east - want to do business with Brunei, buy a PiperJet for $4M NPV (initial price, plus parts, etc). That is $400M in revenue recovery.
Then spin it off or keep it as a hobby.
From Black Tulip:
ReplyDeleteAny chance of getting rid of the light gray typeface on the blog? Note the improved contrast in the "Post Comment" box at the bottom.
BT,
Did I do it? I think I tracked down the right parameter and changed it, but I can't tell for sure. I see what you meant about "Post Comment." It is bold as opposed to regular text, but now this text should at least match "Preview" next to it which I assume was black before, as well. I think I can up the text size a bit. Most of the parameters so far are default settings.
BT,
ReplyDeleteI just increased the size some, as well. Does that look better?
Just learned something new: You can link directly to a comment here by right clicking the date/time stamp at the bottom of each post and selecting "copy link address."
ReplyDeleteAlso, for those that don't know, you can zoom in and out in Internet Explorer and Google Chrome (and probably in other browsers but I don't know) by holding down the "ctrl" key and moving your mouse wheel (if you have one) under your index finger forward and backwards.
ReplyDeleteCtrl+ +/- keys works as well. Ctrl+0 should reset to no zoom.
Ctrl+0 is the number zero FWIW
ReplyDeleteAndy:
ReplyDeleteLegibility is much better! I also like the floating clouds in the background....
FC
BTW how does one add a picture to blog name?
FC,
ReplyDeleteGreat! Glad to hear it. I'm not sure how to add a picture but I'll look around (I think it asked me while I was setting this up).
FC,
ReplyDeleteI'm seeing this a little different than you guys since I'm admin, but to get to the picture option for me I have to click "Design" in the upper right-hand corner (which you guys might not have) and then "My Account" (which maybe you can see directly from this page).
ahh... just like a lot of things in GA... New name, new owner, some new design features, but same old blog!!!
ReplyDeleteThe good things never die; they just morph a little to adjust for life's realities!
Thanks to the new management...
Andy,
ReplyDeleteFor an eyeglass wearer... much better legibility. Thanks.
Back in “olden times”, a problem was fixed by the designer/engineer walking across the shop . . . sketching out the new design on a piece of paper for the shop foreman, and production proceeded. Until the design was in production, everything was kept “in house”.
ReplyDeleteReference:
http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/boeing-considers-moving-787-9-tail-build-house-1022
Today, watching grass grow or watching tectonic plate movement is more exciting than watching a “modern” aircraft company take necessary steps to correct problems. ‘The shear genius of the bean counters! Sure, times have changed, but lessons learned so long ago, at so high a price, need to be remembered.
gadfly
(“Dark Blossom”, from one “eyeglass wearer to another”, I heard of a man that got caught in a lens grinder . . . and made a spectacle of himself.)
I don't think the redesign of the PiperJet fuselage has anything at all to do with increased room in the cabin. The PA-46 fuselage on which the original Piperjet was based is retangular and boxy in cross-section. I don't think the airplane could achieve speed, range, and altitude goals with that fuselage.
ReplyDeleteThey developed a round cross-section fuselage and droped the wing for additional aerodynamic benefits. Look at the Citation X for a good example of the dropped wing position.
The Altaire wing, however, seems to be the same PA-46 wing only shortened in span a few feet and fitted with barn-door winglets. A redesign is needed here as well with a super-critical wing of modest sweep.
While they are re-designing, might as well follow Boeing, Lockheed, and Dassault and move the engine down to the fuselage centerline and make the airplane controllable in pitch.
If Piper only does the fuselage re-design will the aircraft meet specs and be flyable? In my opinion, no. The computer simulations that say it will work are the same computers that said the original Piperjet would work (unless there was fraud at work to con Imprimus into buying Piper in the first place)
Can they do the complete, necessary re-design under the time and money constraints they have. Again, in my opinion, no.
ASM:
ReplyDeleteAnd while their at it, why don't they just add another engine?
B95
If this is just a hobby for the Sultan, worker bees are in big trouble over in Vero Beach.
Could we not call this then serfdom made in the USA?
FC
Andy
ReplyDeleteYou indicate you’re 34, etc. And I had to think back . . . my Grandpa was about 32 when he founded Cushman Motor Works . . . my Dad was about 32 when he began his series of inventions for Pacific Scientific Corp., and maybe I was a “late bloomer”, beginning our own company, and series of inventions in 1976, at age “39". By then, I did have a “private ticket” (single engine, land), and “A&P”, and some other stuff . . . but the bottom line is that it would appear that experience, education, and physical stamina, seem to all come together somewhere in the “thirties” . . . and then you build on that base. Combined with a good wife, and God given “kids” . . . what a winning combination! You have the world by the tail . . . but the world is “out to get you”, make no mistake.
You fly “piston”, single and twins . . . you are in the “sweet spot” of efficiency, in my opinion. Jets are great, but unless you need to be half-way across the continent, overnight, on a daily basis . . . you are in that most efficient position. But even then, you need to evaluate each flight . . . and don’t push it, when things are “iffy”. Last winter . . . discussed before, a couple guys in a Cessna (172?) . . . that got into the habit of a daily commute into Los Alamos (saving two hours each way . . . four hours per day), got in trouble in a late snow storm . . . turned around, too late, and came down only a few hundred yards from a place where the “gadfly” hopes to build our next, and final home. Funny thing . . . the highway, NM 344, coming up only a few feet from that spot is called “Heartbreak Hill” by us locals (a 15% downhill slope to the west, into the most beautiful sunsets anywhere on earth, with all the “banks” in the wrong direction) . . . and someone coming over the hill on a “bike”, hit that curve a little too fast, and added another fatality to the list.
Bottom line . . . stay alert, and never take anything for granted . . . ever! And never “assume”.
gadfly
(And never lose the fun of flying on the wings of the wind! In the mean time, I'll look further at your website, and the "niche" that you have found, to build your successful business, Alliance Facilities Management. For whatever it's worth, I put myself through school, swabbing floors, and aspects of maintenance . . . but not at the "high-tech" level of your company. 'How 'bout mowing 82 acres of grass runways, every two weeks! . . . And painting all the main buildings and "Tee" hangars . . . does that count?)
Andy, thanks for your engagement!
ReplyDeleteBest wishes to Phil!
PiperJet Redesign:
ReplyDeleteCabin - needed to achieve 8,000ft cabin at FL350 - hard to pump a square fuselage with that great a differential.
Wing - needed to take spars out of the cab - it was a non starter for a 21st century jet.
While at it, marketing department piled up a few inches here and there.
Sweep - no need for 360KTS plane.
FC - Worker bees in trouble...
They'd be in more trouble if there was no Sultan and they were unemployed now vs 2 years from now, no?
Workerbees care about paycheck (honey). they could care less where it comes from.
B95:
ReplyDeleteTrue, true. As I mentioned before, it would seem they just bought themselves time that is all.
And as "Peter" (not sure if he is connected to Botfly somehow) mentioned, "they ripped it right out of Vern's playbook."
Did you call me honey? Kidding!
FC
FC,
ReplyDeleteTwo engines would be a good idea but the thin, straight wing is hard pressed to carry enough fuel for one engine on the Piperjet. Another reason for having a swept wing as the spar can be made deeper and the whole wing stronger while maintaining the same fineness ratio of the airfoil on the straight wing. And lots more room for fuel without adding tip tanks. Now you can add the second engine.
Nice Article on WSJ on JetSuite and how they are lowering Charter costs with brand new Jets.
ReplyDeletePhenoms, of course.
Enjoy the read.
B95:
ReplyDeleteSo let me get this one straight. We are "producing" an airplane the "Altaire" for no good reason other than employing people in the US?
The Sultan is laughing at our complete lack of integrity (Gadfly chime in) all the way to his Hobby Lobby!
FC
FC - Have you ever met a Sultan or Emperor or Hot Shot Gambler or Super Ego Investor?
ReplyDeleteAll these guys think they can succeed where others have failed and are failing.
They also like to be involved in "cool" projects. Be it send a spaceship to suborbital flight, climbing the Everest, Erradicating Malaria, or making airplanes.
And Yes - they tend to create lots of jobs trying it. Be grateful and enjoy them as they last.
Baron95,
ReplyDeletethat's right - but you missed one point:
all these guys may change their mind the next day and order someone to sell or stop the business and start a new more compelling vision!
Only dreamers don't care about pay checks.
Workerbees (with Piper) will look at the a/cs sold and know quite well when their gambling starts. Do they have enough cash to say good bye when there is an opportunity somewhere in US or Canda?
Vern's dream team didn't fall apart because of lack of opportunities or too much cash?
Hey, if the Big Boss bought the shop then one shouldn't blame him for doing that. It's always better to cover one's a...(get money) and do the best!
I didn't miss the point. Is it better to have more, but more fluid jobs or fewer but more stable jobs?
ReplyDeleteIgnoring the past two years of crisis, is it better to have chronic 12% unemployment, but with the remaining 88% of jobs very stable (for life type), or Have 4-5% unemployment but with many jobs constantly being created and lost?
It is a fair debate.
My *strong* view is that any enterprise and any job created, no matter how long it lasts is a net plus for the economy and population.
A nation should never discourage the closing of a business or the elimination of a job, because doing so is the surest way for people to avoid opening a business and creating a job.
I like many things about the PiperJet project - its single jet engine mounted high above ground (ingestion of dirt and ice), its (new) interior and G3000. But after this last round of redesign I came with a nagging feeling that by switching to round windows they sacrificed their area. I like bigger windows - no matter what shape.
ReplyDeleteNews is that Cessna is going to announce in November a single-engine turboprop based on the Mustang, which happily already has a round- sectioned fuselage and it's modestly-swept wing positioned well below the fuselage.
ReplyDelete“Carbon (fiber) footprint?” . . . looks like they’ll be walking longer than planned:
ReplyDeletehttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013215262_boeing21.html
Sikorsky to the rescue? . . . What would Igor have said? (He’d have to take off his “fedora” to sit in the pilot’s chair.)
http://eclipseaerospace.net/inthenews_indiv.php?id=8
gadfly
B95:
ReplyDeleteI totally get jobs at all cost are worth it even if only temporary in this economic climate, but one would hope that they at Piper are making an airplane that will actually fly.
Right now the Altaire looks like a fancy RV. What about the investors, are they stuck with a new redesign or can they get out? Are they at the whim of the Sultan too?
Oh, and I have had my share of egomaniacs in my life, including a Prince from Saudi Arabia, a high risk gambler, and a jet-setting world player. I know exactly how much they care about real people. That's where that integrity part really bugs me...
FC
PS I am talking about American integrity by the way!
ReplyDeleteCessna TP - Yes, it was quite interesting how Cessna's CEO never denied the rumors and said it is a big space between Corvalis and Mustang that they were looking at.
ReplyDeleteHe said (correctly) that the key is being able to bring it at the right price point.
The thing is that a PT6 + a propeller costs about the same as two PWC615. Since the fuselage and everything else is the same, how do they make it at a lower price?
Regarding Jobs, etc...
ReplyDeleteHere is a perfect illustration of what Americans prefer. On one hand, high taxes, non-right to work, unionized states. On the other low taxes, right to work, virtually no private sector unions.
Forget US vs China. It is California/Michigan/NY vs Texas et all.
hey FC...
ReplyDeleteTSA Can Now Date Rape You - Touching your "no-fly" zones OKed
"The U.S. Transportation Security Administration will update its pat-down methods at 450 U.S. airports on Friday to allow more aggressive touching, with inspectors instructed to touch travelers' personal do-not-fly zones if they refuse scanners. Who's ready for a road trip?
The current TSA first date pat-down keeps the touching mostly to the sides of your body and down your legs, with the screeners using the back of their hands. While the TSA has declined to specify all the details of the new pat-down guidelines, the Boston Herald reported earlier this week that the techniques include "over-the-clothes searches of passengers' breast and genital areas."
The difference between the old regime and the new - which in typical TSA fashion will be sprung on unsuspecting travelers without notice - was described by an ACLU official who had the procedure during a test at Boston's Logan Airport two months ago:
Two (female) TSA officers stepped over to me, and gave me the new procedure, which included touching my face and hair, and in between and directly under my breasts. Much like a medical appointment, they explained the motions they would make before actually touching me, and both women were professional and polite about the screening - even apologetic about it - but I couldn't help but think this was overly invasive overkill.
Of course, travelers can avoid the new form of civil unions by accepting the full-body scans that led one ExpressJet pilot to walk off the job last week. At the other end of the business, the chairman of British Airways has also criticized the growing load of U.S. safety rules, saying several are "completely redundant.""
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBring on the FBS please! Its the only way to go!
ReplyDeleteAs far as pat downs go, B95, afraid you're gonna be patted down by a member of your own sex, even if they are cute....unless of course that works for you?! kidding ;)
Sir Gadfly:
Pretty interesting stuff with Eclipse and Sikorsky. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
ASM:
I am going to have a talk with Mary Rose about that new Cessna single turbo prop. It will be interesting to see what she has to say!
Actually, what are the advantages of a single engine in terms of flying?
FC
FC . . . Back in the early 1950's, Sikorsky was the first aircraft company to order my Dad’s inertia harness reel restraint system (cable . . . the Nylon web system came shortly thereafter) and five point quick release buckle. This restrain system is still the “de facto” standard in the cockpits on most domestic airliners, little changed in almost sixty years. So, I have good memories of “Sikorsky” of old . . . but whether or not Sikorsky’s involvement with Eclipse would be a good thing? . . . the word of the day should be: “caveat emptor”.
ReplyDeletegadfly
(Anyone interested in multi-engine aircraft thrust and control should do a study of Igor Sikorsky’s four engine “le Grande” first flown successfully in 1913 . . . flyable on “any two engines”, an amazing achievement at any time in aircraft history.)
What I want to know is how come Robinson can have a 5 place turbine helo for $790K and the cheapest turbine plane is $2M.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't Beech or Cirrus hang a RR300 turbine on their Bonanza SR22 frames and sell it for $790K as well?
FC,
ReplyDeleteSingles are generally easier to fly and are easier airplanes with which to maintain proficiency. The big advantage is less fuel burn than the twins. The big disadvantage, of course, is that an engine failure means an immediate landing.
biggest advantage is lower MRO with 1 engine than 2
ReplyDeletealso, symmetry
Do you remember the hundreds of orders cancellations from NetJets for planes from Cessna and Beech?
ReplyDeleteUnderstandable - the economy right?
Well, things are picking up a bit, NetJets decided to streamline their fleet.
What did they do?
Of course...
Ordered up to 125 Phenom 300 from Embraer - 50 firm, 75 options.
Yes, Beech and Cessna - keep on burying your head in the sand. Life is good.
New post up. :-)
ReplyDeletewhere?
ReplyDeleteHi Michal,
ReplyDeleteClick on "Aviation Enthusiasts" at the top of this page which should take you to the home page where hopefully the new post shows. :-) ASM has already posted there.
Oh, that's how you get to next thread? Well of course ASM is decidedly smarter than most of us!
ReplyDeleteFC